This morning I read an article in the Daily Telegraph on how the Rev David Rhodes of All Saints’ Church, Totley, Sheffield has banned a Tai Chi group from the Church Hall because of it’s links with Eastern Religion. Perhaps the said vicar should also think about banning Christmas and Easter because of their pagan overtones. Come to think of it, that was tried before during the time of the Commonwealth and it alienated so many people they restored the monarchy!
When a Church or Minister gets so far out of touch they need to be careful – they may find too many people vote with their feet making the task of being Christ in the World that much harder.
Of course, there is a middle ground. How about combining their Alpha Group with the Tia Chi – now that would be novel!
Middle ground – what middle ground ? Minister out of touch ? Voting with their feet ? Where in the bible did Christ tone things down or go with the flow just to keep the local population happy ? That seems to be the general perception of the church today. If you don’t like what it teaches then modify it to until it says what you want it to say. Perhaps that is why the church is shrinking. The modern way of thinking is, if I don’t like something I’ll just do what I want and if the “rule book” says do this I’ll just ignore it. Being Christ in the world means following the teaching of the Bible not adapting it to suit individual lifestyles. It is far from easy on many fronts but being a Christian is not about taking the easy route.
If something painful needed saying Christ said it. Either the minister practises what he preaches, and leads by example. as he has clearly been moved to do here , or else he goes with the flow and waters down the bible and all it’s teaching so that it becomes meaningless. To most people tai chi, and yoga for that matter, are regarded as harmless exercise routines.
In reality they are exercise routines based on a non Christian faith and, therefore, regrettable and difficult as it may seem, the vicar and his team are right to adopt the stance they have. Elsewhere I have seen comments on this article saying “this is the 21st century” as if that is a good reason to adapt or revise the bible to mean whatever suits one’s particluar leaning and point of view.
Put into plain English, when you join a club you are expected to accept the rules, even though it is only human to disagree with some. In this context being a Christian means recognising that a church and it’s property are not the places for tai chi, yoga or any other martial art any more than they would be suitable for the sale of top shelf magazines.
It is a tough call for the vicar to have to make but I think he should be respected for having the courage to handle it as he has and not taken to task, mostly by non-believers and partly by “Christians” who clearly do not fully understand the teaching of their own Bible. Those who say they will boycott the church are being amazingly short-sighted and childish really. Rather than acknowledge that perhaps there are genuine reasons and belief in what has been done they bridle like children having had their sweets taken away for breaking someone’s window and make sulky noises.
The group were in another venue before. let them find another venue now.
Well, first of all the bit about ‘middle ground’ was said tongue in cheek – a joke and (shock horror) even Jesus made quite a few of those.
What has Tia Chi to do with the modification of Christ’s Teaching? Yes it has its roots in the East but most Tia Chi instructors would not even know what a Taoist is and I doubt that a set of exercises is going to condemn anyone to hell.
You accuse the group of being childish – are they? Or is that boot on the other foot?
You talk of “Christians” who do not fully understand the bible – I think you may mean Christians who don’t hold to your particular
interpretation.
Then what does a so called “Christian” of 43 years standing know except following the law of Christ when he said Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and your neighbour as yourself. I see lots of Christians who do the first but seem to forget the second.
Anyway, I’m open minded enough to publish your views for all to see and, as my old minister used to say, we shall agree to disagree.
A fair reply with which I cannot take serious issue – and you have 32 years head start on my Christian walk.
I agree that most instructors probably would not know anything about the Taoist faith , I don’t either. But it does have definite links to Eastern Religion as you acknowledged earlier – as indeed does yoga which again most people only consider to be breathing techniques and keep fit exercise.
A friend in London briefly attended yoga classes in a local church hall but was concerned when told to chant certain words so queried what they meant. In that instance the tutor said not to take much notice of it as she wasn’t exactly sure what it was but had something to do with some Indian goddess. My friend raised this with the vicar as she felt it entirely inappropriate for such words to be chanted in a church setting – sort of like allowing a Baal into a pre-Christ Jewish temple through the back door.
Needless to say the vicar couldn’t see the relevance at all and was more concerned with the revenue so ignored her completely. She left the group and sought other less “religious” ways of achieving what she needed through different methods.
It is not a question of the boot on the other foot. The vicar, with leading from his team as I understand it, acted in accordance with their understanding of the Bible which exhorts “him only shalt thou worship” and “to serve no foreign god” which is presumably what they felt was happening, albeit inadvertently or unknowingly. I happen to agree with him, not out of awkwardness but because I believe he is correct so yes , that is my personal interpretation.
It seems to me that rather than stamping their feet and threatening to leave the church as some have suggested they would be better served by listening to the vicars reasons and, in your own words, agreeing to disagree but accept that as it is his church, his responsibilty and his leadership team they should find an alternative venue. From the articles I have read he does not appear to be setting out to cause trouble as some would but is acting from conscience and sincerity,
You refer also to the many Christians who love God but forget their neghbours and I have to own up to that, not always by any means, but certainly enough times to merit the criticism if levelled at me. Nevertheless that is no excuse for trying to force the church’s hand and make them accept something that their belief contradicts.
Unlike the limited number of comment blogs I have seen your reply is measured and polite – not peppered with the usual mix of expletives, poor spelling, non existent grammar and self-evident ignorance that characterise so many.
My primary purpose in writing at all was to offer support to a church whom I am sure the press and other members of the public would enjoy kicking/ridiculing/poking fun at simply because it is a church and any excuse to make the church look intolerant, irrelevant and pointless is generally seized upon with relish.
In a nutshell – yes let us agree to disagree, there are many more pressing points to consdier within ( and outside ) the life of the church in the UK and I could list any number for debate but then that would be inappropriate here.
Thank you Andrew
One reason I gave a link to All Saints website was to allow people to check out the Church for themselves.